名人訪談錄之Charlie Rose採訪楊瀾

主持人：楊瀾是陽光媒體集團的董事長，集團經營媒體、在線等業務。我很高興楊瀾今天首次來我們這個節目，歡迎你。
Host: Yang Lan is chairwoman of Sun Media Group, which has other businesses in media, online and more. I am very pleased to have her here at this table for the first time. Welcome.

楊瀾：謝謝查理。謝謝邀請我來參加你的節目。
Yang Lan: Thanks you, Charlie. Thank you for having me.

主持人：跟我分享下你的這些經歷是如何開始的？
Host: Tell me how this started for you.

楊瀾：這一切是20年前開始，我剛剛大學畢業。那時候，中央電視臺首次公開從大學畢業生中選拔主持人，爲一個黃金時段的娛樂節目，節目名稱叫《正大綜藝》。是一個向中國觀衆介紹世界各地旅遊觀光的節目，當時99%的中國人還連護照都沒有。所以，在當時中國逐漸開放的時代，這是人們瞭解外面世界的一個新窗口。
Yang Lan: It all started exactly 20 years ago, when I was graduating from college. At that time, the national television had its first open audition, for college graduates for its prime time variety show, called Zheng Da Variety Show. That was a show to introduce sightseeing around the world to the Chinese audience, who at that time, 99% of our population, didn't even have a passport. So it was a brand new exposure to the outside world, when China was opening up.

主持人：你以前想過做這種工作嗎？
Host: Have you thought about that kind of career before that?

楊瀾：沒有，完全沒有。我在北京外交學院主修英語語言文學。當我接觸到這個機會的時候，出於好奇就去了，當時有1000個女孩應試，經過多回合的選拔，應該是七輪選拔，我最後勝出，這件事爲我在電視事業的發展奠定了很好的開端。我主持的第一個節目就是個全國性在黃金時段播出的節目，每週有兩億觀衆觀看這個節目。我在這個節目幹了四年。那段時光確實爲我的職業生涯奠定了一個很好的開端。
Yang Lan: No, not at all. My major in college was English literature and language in Beijing Foreign Studies University. When I was offered this opportunity, out of curiosity, I went, as well as another 1,000 girls. After rounds of auditions, I believe, it's after 7 rounds of auditions; I became the last one who survived it. So it gave me a really good start into broadcasting television. And the first show I hosted was a prime-time nation-wide show, which had an audience of 200 million every week. I did it for four years. That really gave me a pretty good start in the career.

主持人：這些數字讓人驚歎。從美國電視的角度來說。中國的農業部長訪問華盛頓的時候，我曾在這裏採訪他 當時肯尼迪中心正舉辦中國節，他們問我是否可以在中國播放這個節目。我在採訪中說當然可以了。他們說，你會有機會被3億觀衆看到，這個人數比我看到過的或一輩子在任何場合中遇到過的都要多。
Host: It's stunning to hear those numbers. From an American television perspective. I once did an interview with the Minister of Culture from China here. It was in Washington, where they had held a Chinese festival at the Kennedy Center. So they asked me: Could they re-broadcast it in China? I said of course at the interview. They said you probably would reach 300 million people, which was more people than I have ever seen or anything I have done in my entire life.

楊瀾：我們有13億人口。
Yang Lan: But we have 1.3 billion.

主持人：於是你就開始……
Host: So then you began to…

楊瀾：之後我辭了工作來到美國在哥倫比亞大學讀研究生並主修國際關係。畢業後，我回香港加入鳳凰衛視，衛星電視網絡的一個普通話頻道，我開始製作我自己的節目《楊瀾面對面》。當時是中文電視的首個一對一深入採訪節目。我做採訪做了12年，加上在鳳凰衛視的日子。在這個節目裏，我採訪了世界各地600多位舉足輕重的人物，他們中很多人也曾經是您的嘉賓。
Yang Lan: And then I quit my job to come to the States for a post-graduate study at Columbia University of New York, where I studied International Affairs. Upon graduation, I went back to Hong Kong to join Phoenix TV, the mandarin channel of Star TV Network. I started to produce my own show, Yan Lan 1-on-1, which was the first ever in-depth 1-on-1 interview show on Chinese television. I have been doing that, for, plus the days at Phoenix TV, 12 years. So over this time, I have interviewed more than 600 movers and shakers around the world. And many of them have been your guests too.

主持人：你的企業家精神從哪裏來？事實上，你不僅有事業，還和您的丈夫一起創業。
Host: Where did this entrepreneurial spirit that you have come from? The fact that you have not just had a career, but you also have engaged in creating businesses and enterprises along with your husband.

楊瀾：嗯，那是10年前，2000年。我們一起創立了陽光媒體，在大中華地區的第一個衛星紀錄片頻道。因爲那時候，我非常沉迷紀錄片。我想這些能深度記錄文化、歷史和人文的片子會有持久的價值。但那一次嘗試失敗了。堅持了四年 原因是生意模式不可持續。因爲我們設在香港，然而當時國內的落地證很少，所以頻道沒法拿到更多的廣告費支持。
Yang Lan: Well, that was 10 years ago, the year of 2000. We co-founded Sun TV, which was the first satellite documentary channel for the greater China area. Because at that time, I was so obsessed with documentary. I think they have lasting values, give in-depth look into culture and history and people. But then that business had a flop. In four years' time, because the business model was not sustainable. The fact was we were positioned in Hong Kong, but then we had limited landing right into the mainland, which didn't give it enough advertising revenue basis.

主持人：我想默多克曾投資鳳凰衛視。
Host: I think Rupert Murdoch at once was invested in the Phoenix Television, was he not?

楊瀾：是的，他應該仍然是股東之一。後來我們把頻道賣了，然後開始做多媒體整合，綜合了電視、網站、活動策劃等媒體。
Yang Lan: Yes, I think he is still part of the shareholders. So we sold the channel. We started to build multi-media integration into different aspects of the media. Television, website, and then big events, so on so forth.
主持人：現在有沒有一個網站上介紹您是什麼人，做什麼，或者甚至有您的博客。
Host: Is there a website now that reflects the broadest understanding of who you are, what you are about and might even carry a blog from you.

楊瀾：我在中國幾個領先的門戶網站有博客，我也有微博。我們的天女網社區也有三、四百萬粉絲。我們的網站以中文爲主，名字叫 ，也就是天女的拼音。目標受衆是城市女性。
Yang Lan: I have a blog in several leading portals in China, and also tweeter. Our social community for Her Village () for example is around 3 to 4 million followers. And our website is mostly in mandarin, It's called , which is the Chinese spelling for Her Village. That's targeted at urban women.

主持人：你覺得這個不凡的事業會走向何方？
Host: Where is, you think, this remarkable career headed?

楊瀾：我不知道，我覺得中國現在有那麼多令人興奮的機遇。媒體也在開放，還有各種各樣的事情人們想去嘗試。如果你沒有現成的平臺去實踐這些理想，你可以嘗試自己創造。我想這就是企業家精神的源泉。對於我，它是……我想我們處於一個沒有一個單一平臺可以完成所有溝通任務的年代，因此它會更整合。利用媒體、溝通方式，到達你的目標受衆，對於我來說，服務於城市女性是我的目標之一。
Yang Lan: I don't know. I think there are so many exciting opportunities in China. The media is also opening up. So there are all sorts of things that you want to do. And if you don't have existing platforms to help to do that, you try to create something for yourself. I think that's where the entrepreneurship comes from. And for me, it's about… I think we have come into an age in which not a singular platform can complete the whole communication job. So it's more integrated. Media, communication, into your targeted audience For me, serving the urban women audience is one of my goals.

主持人：在中國，是否有一種與生俱來的商業意識在甦醒在等待開放，等待機會去創造？
Host: Was there just a natural instinct for business that was there, dormant in China, waiting for it to open, waiting for their opportunity to create things?

楊瀾：我認爲是的。它已經被壓制了幾十年。忽然開放了，人人都想碰碰運氣，因此到處都洋溢着企業家精神。尤其是在那些想碰運氣的年輕人當中，他們首先想實現夢想和抱負。因此，我認爲夢有多遠，人就能走到多遠。
Yang Lan: I believe so. It has been suppressed for decades. And suddenly when things open up, everyone wants to try his luck. So there is a lot of entrepreneurial spirits in the air, especially among young people, who want to try their luck. And above all, try to realize their dreams, their aspirations. So I think your imagination is your limit.

主持人：馬雲前幾天來這裏，我想你肯定認識他。他建立了一個亞馬遜式的商業帝國，不同凡響。
Host: Jack Ma was here the other day. Someone I am sure you must know. He has created an Amazon-like umpire. It's extraordinary.

楊瀾：是的，現在是年輕人創造他們自己的帝國的時候了。但對於我，我並不想建立什麼帝國，而是做自己真正喜歡的事情，有時候我想我還真挺擅長這些。
Yang Lan: Yeah, it's the age for younger people to create their own empires. For me, it's not about building my own umpire. It's about something that I really enjoy doing and sometimes I think I am good at it.

主持人：你確實不錯，嘗試新事物。不僅是問你爲什麼要這樣做，而且問爲什麼不，這是我的思考方式。跟我們說說文化的轉變，時尚、影視方面的轉變，城市生活方式的意識等。
Host: You obviously are good at it. So trying something new, not just asking the question why do you want to do it, but the question why not is my mentality. Talk to us about the cultural changes and the changes in fashion, in cinema, and the sense of life style in the urban areas.

楊瀾：今後20年將可能見證中國從藝術到影視、到紀錄片、到時尚、任何事物衆多方面的復興。但我們發現社會價值的重建問題，人們曾經也依稀看到過這樣的意識形態。隨後變成了物質主義。有個相親節目，裏面的男孩問女孩要不要坐在我自行車後座一起去玩，女孩說我寧願坐在寶馬車的後座上哭。這在社會上引起很大爭議，反映了物質主義統治着年輕一代的價值觀。然後社會上有很大的反響。我們到底怎麼了？難道物質主義、物質上的成功是我們這代的唯一目標嗎？我們在尋求的東西里有沒有更有價值、更持久的東西？我想在今後 20 年，不僅是藝術、時尚和創造的復興，還有我們價值觀的重建。建設文明社會會是其中的一部分。上週我的基金會，陽光文化基金會，與比爾梅連達蓋茨基金會合辦了一場活動。
Yang Lan: The following two decade will possibly witness a renaissance of all kinds in China. From arts to cinema, to documentaries, to fashion, to whatever. But also we found it is a restoration of values into the society, where people got this illusion from certain ideology before. But then there was materialism. There was a dating show, In which when the boy asked the girl do you want to sit on the back seat of my bicycle and we both have fun, the girl said I would rather cry on the back seat of a BMW, which aroused huge controversy in the society, suggesting materialism is overruling the value system of the younger generation. But then there is a big outcry in the society saying that what's wrong with us? Is materialism, material success, the only goal for our generation? Is there something more valuable, more lasting that we are seeking? So I think for the next two decades, it's not just the renaissance of arts, of fashion, of creativity but also it's about the reinvention of our value system. And building up a civil society is a part of that. Last week my foundation, Sun Culture foundation, co-organized an event with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

主持人：這是不是比爾跟沃倫要找……中國的富翁。
Host: Is it when Bill and Warren looking ese billionaires.

楊瀾：活動不是關於捐獻而是互相交流慈善精神。我還要請了民政部長來參與。他事後寫了博客說，他從未來的慈善家們那裏得到了很多反饋，說我們要先建立慈善的法規，也要扶植非盈利組織和非政府組織的設立。
Yang Lan: It's not about giving pledge. It's about equal exchange of ideas of philanthropy. I also invited the Minister of Civil Affairs to be a partner, from which he also wrote a blog, saying that he got so much feedback from future philanthropists, saying that first of all we need legislation for philanthropy. Also we need capacity building for our NPO and NGOs.

主持人：新一代領導人，比如現在 30 歲 或者 40 歲 出頭的骨幹們，與他們的上一代有什麼不同？
Host: Will the new generation of leadership, say, young man and women in their early 30s now and early 40s, how are they different from the generation that they will succeed?

楊瀾：他們接受過更好的教育，很多人讀過大學，他們也通過互聯網和其它媒體瞭解了世界。他們中的很多人現在有能力去國外旅遊，你也看見旅遊業，在國內和國外的蓬勃發展。這一代思考問題不會受到地域的限制，會超出地域界限去思考。企業家們在其它國家投資；年輕人在美國，在歐洲和其它地方尋求教育，在什麼事能做，什麼事能實現方面的限制比以前少了。我們很多人都知道北京上海香港和其它幾個城市。
Yang Lan: They have got very decent education, college education. For many of them. And they have the exposure through the internet and other media to the world. And many of them can afford international travels these days. So you see the booming of tourism, both at home and abroad. So this generation does not only think about themselves with the limitation of geographic boundaries but rather they can think across the borders. The entrepreneurs are investing in other countries. Younger people, they are seeking education here or in Europe, and elsewhere. So there is less limit in terms of what they can do, what they can achieve. Most of us know about Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong and a few other huge cities.

主持人：能否介紹下在此之外的中國。
Host: Tell us the China beyond that.

楊瀾：在中國，東部和西部的差距是很大的，主要城市與二線城市，三線城市的差距也很大。浩大的城市化進程正在發生。人們從邊遠地區流向城市，過去 20 年，超過 2 億邊遠地區人口經歷了城市化。今後 20 年，還有 3 億人口會進入城市。
Yang Lan: In China, there is a huge disparity from East to West, from major cities to second-tier, third-tier cities. But there is a massive process of urbanization, which is taking place right now. People coming from the rural areas to the city. Over the past two decades, more than 200 million rural population has been urbanized. For the next two decades, another 300 million are coming into cities.
主持人：這對中國意味着什麼？他們來到城市，找到工作嗎？找到機會嗎？
Host: What does that mean for China? They are coming in. Are they finding jobs? They are finding opportunities?

楊瀾：他們找到工作，也找到機會，但公共政策也需要爲他們和他們下一代的需求做出調整。例如，地區城市怎麼提供醫療服務、教育和住房給這些民工等等。他們是否應該與城市人一樣被平等看待？很多的實踐在進行中。在中國 300多個城市的人口超過百萬。
Yang Lan: They are finding jobs. They are finding opportunities. But also public policy needs to be adjusted to suit the needs of them and their children. For example, how should the local cities provide medical services, education, housing to these migrant workers. Should they be treated equally as city residents? And so on so forth. So a lot of experiments are going on. In China, there are more than 300 cities with a population beyond 1 million.

主持人：300個城市有過百萬人口？
Host: 300 cities with a population more than a million?

楊瀾：如果你今天到中國的二、三線城市，會看到大量的工程在進行，還有更成熟的城市規劃。你會看到成百上千的新劇院在興建，還有博物館、公園，等等；高速火車將很快連接整個國家並把它的交通提升到一個新的水平；你還會看到溝通速度的提升，還有信息的傳播。我不知道這個國家將走向何方，但我想它會走向更開放，肯定是走向全球最大的經濟體，我想它也是走向更開放的社會，並給年輕人提供更多的機會。
Yang Lan: If you visit second or third tier cities nowadays in China, massive construction, but also more sophisticated city planning. You see hundreds, thousands of new theaters being built, museums and parks and so on so forth. And the high-speed train will soon connect the whole country and raise it to another level of communication in transportation. So you will see the speeding up of communication and also the spread of information. I don't know what the country is heading for. But I think it is heading for a more open society. It's heading for the largest economy in the world for sure. I think it's also heading for a more open society. And also for young people, more opportunities.

主持人：爲什麼這個進程沒有更快一些？
Host: Why doesn’t that take place faster?

楊瀾：保持穩定是一個因素，試想3億人口的流動。如果你看到那個場景，你會很驚訝，每年農曆新年，有2億人口回他們在邊遠地區的家鄉，那是一個龐大人流。城鄉收入差別也很大。年輕的大學畢業生可能無法負擔大城市飆升的房價，市場上有商業房地產泡沫破裂的恐懼。是的，有各種憂慮和擔心。我想保持社會穩定是一個大挑戰和任務。你相信嗎，作爲媒體工作者，我有時想這個速度發展得太快了點。例如，土地的使用。我們可能是在濫用土地，把本該留給下一代的土地儲備都用了。我們在一塊土地上建立了那麼多的東西，例如建築物，很多其實很差遲早要被拆除，這對環境、資源和資金是多麼浪費。我想社會是在開放，越來越開放。
Yang Lan: Instability is a big issue, if you have 300 million people migrating. If you see it, you will be astonished. Every year during Chinese New Year, there will be 200 million coming back home to their rural residence. That is the migration of a huge population. Also there is a huge disparity of income between the urban and rural areas. Young college graduates would be overwhelmed by the rising real estate prices in major metropolitan cities. The commercial real estate is in some fear of a bubble taking place. Yes, so you have all sort of worries and concerns. I think keeping the society together is a huge challenge and task. Believe it or not, as a media professional, I think sometimes the speed is a little bit too fast. For example, the usage of the land. Probably we are overusing it. We have used the land reserve that should be used for the next generation. But we had developed so many things on a piece of ground. The architecture for example. There are some very bad pieces that will be taken apart sooner or later. What a waste of environment resources and money into it. So I think the society is opening up and keeps opening up.

主持人：那麼你擔心什麼呢？
Host: So what do you worry about your country?

楊瀾：我擔心該如何保持這樣的發展速度？一方面要保持建設速度；一方面要保證年輕一代不會失去機會。最近我訪談了“蟻族”人士，那是用來描述新畢業的大學生的，以三千多元的月收入，就是工作 10 年甚至 20 年，他們也買不起房子。所以他們正失去希望，所以這個社會怎樣才能始終給年輕一代創造成功的機會？難道只能保持原先的增長速度？房價必須穩定在大部分人可以承受的範圍之內。
Yang Lan: Well, I worry about how do you keep pace with this development? With this construction. Without the younger generation losing opportunities. Nowadays, I did interviews with so called "tribe of ants", describing the new college graduates with an income of $500 a month, they cannot afford an apartment or a home within 10 years of or 20 years of employment. So they are losing their hope. So how can the society provide the young people with opportunity to succeed? Only if they maintain the growth rate they had? You have to maintain a reasonable real estate price for the majority of the population.

主持人：如何才能做到呢？
Host: And how do they do that?

楊瀾：我也確實沒有答案。
Yang Lan: I really don't have a solution for that.

主持人：不過我想這是件我擔心的事情。過去很長一段時間，年輕的中國學生去了美國或者英國的大學，他們中的很多留下來了，一些回到了中國。所以現在中國有不少 40 多歲， 50 多歲在國外受過教育的人被邀請回國，回國參與國家發展。吸引力來自於國家榮譽感。你在那些離開中國去了美國，英國或者其他地方比如俄國並決定回國參與中國正在發生的劇變的人們身上看到這點麼？
Host: But I think that's a concern for me. For a long time, young Chinese had gone to American university, to British universities, many of them stayed or some of them come back. So you have people now in their 40s and 50s with graduate education outside of China. And they are being asked to come back. To come back and take part. The appeal is out of national pride. Do you see much of that in people who left China for United States, or England, or other places like Russia, who have decided to come back to participate in this extraordinary transformation that's taking place.

楊瀾：我認爲愛國是一回事，另一方面是實現夢想的機會，而且我認爲這是更具決定性的因素。
Yang Lan: I think national pride is one thing. Opportunity and a chance to realize your dream is another. I think it's a more decisive element.

主持人：機會比愛國更重要。
Host: Opportunity is a more decisive element than pride.

楊瀾：是的，即便對於普通人也是如此。在美國，建築師可以夢想在曼哈頓設計建造一座大樓，但是他會有多少這樣的機會呢？在中國，有幾十上百個城市需要設計它們的地標。
Yang Lan: I think so, even for ordinary people. For example, an architect here can aspire to build one major building in Manhattan. But how many opportunities can be offered to him? In China, you have dozens or hundreds of cities designing their landmarks.

主持人：大部分我認識的著名建築師都在中國工作了。
Host: Most great architects I know are working in China.

楊瀾：那是一塊巨大的實驗田，可以嘗試各種風格和創造，年輕人當然願意回去尋求各自立業成名的機會。當年輕的商業人士在美國時，他們目睹了各種各樣在中國還沒有的服務。他們可以回國，創辦一個新的培訓中心，一所學校，一家幼兒園。他們可以創辦任何事業。用他們在歐美，或者世界其它地方學到的作爲參考，在國內，他們可以白手起家，花幾年的時間獲得成功。我想這方面的誘惑比國家榮譽感更強。不過當然，愛國也是很重要的一個元素。
Yang Lan: It's a huge test land of all sorts of styles and creativity. Of course, young people like to go back, and to seek their success or have their name made. Also young business people, when they stayed here in the US, they see all sorts of services, which is still unavailable in China. They can go back home and start a training center, a school, a kindergarten. They can start anything, using the references that they learned here or in Europe, or anywhere else in the world. When back home, they can start something from scratch, and get successful in a few years' time I think that temptation is even greater than national pride. But of course, national pride is one element.
主持人：中產階級的崛起有多快？
Host: How fast is the middle class rising?

楊瀾：因爲很多人將此作爲衡量中國發展的重要因素之一。看中國除了出口之外，內需市場是否能建立起來。我想中產階級發展很快，不過我沒有一個具體數字，當然也要看你怎麼界定中產階級，有穩定工作？有房產？
Yang Lan: Because many look at it as an important element of China's growth to find markets internally and serve the markets externally. I think the middle class is growing very fast. I don't have a specific number that I can give you. It also depends on how would you define a middle-class person. A regular job? a home?

主持人：那麼你們在中國怎麼界定中產階級？
Host: How would you define middle class in China?

楊瀾：嗯，我會說，租房住，買房住，有穩定的工作，事業發展有前景，有孩子，有車。這些是一些基本象徵。就拿中國車輛銷售的提升來說，這也是正在崛起的中產階級的象徵之一，去年中國賣出了 1 千萬部新車，中國正成爲所有行業數一數二的大市場。我想這是中國中產階級正在崛起的一個象徵。
Yang Lan: Well, I would say you know, a rented home, a board home. A regular job. A career in sight. Raising children, having a car. That can be some of the symbols. If you think of the rise of car sales in China, I think that would be one of the symbols of the rising middle class. Last year 10 million new cars were sold in China. It's becoming the first or the second largest market for everything. I think that could be one symbol of the rising of the middle class in China.

主持人：當我們談論中國的政治和變化總會提及言論自由。我們都知道谷歌的爭議事件，你怎樣定義今天中國的言論自由？
Host: When we look at the politics of China, the changes of China there are always the questions of freedom of expression. We all know about the Google controversy that took place. How would you characterize freedom of expression today in China?

楊瀾：仍然有規章制度、審批制度、令人失望的地方，這是肯定的。但我也看到進步，尤其是在互聯網普及的情況下，互聯網正成爲人們對政策發表意見的重要渠道。好的壞的都包括。有不少濫用權力的例子在互聯網上被曝光，公衆的龐大力量促使政府更及時更透明地作出反應，並直接促使政府修改有關法規和政策，我想這是我們已經取得的進步。
Yang Lan: There are still regulations, censorship, frustrations. That's for sure. But I also see progress, especially through the introduction of internet. It has become a big public arena that more people will voice their opinions about public policies. Pros and cons. And there have been many cases when abuses of power were reported on the internet; huge public outcry will drive the government to be more spontaneous, to be more transparent, and also it directly led to the change of regulations or practices by the government. I think that's the progress we have made.

主持人：那麼人權狀況呢？
Host: And human rights?

楊瀾：拿拘留犯人、服刑犯人來舉例，互聯網上會曝光那些遭受虐待的案例，事後相關人員被處分，會開展調查並重新修改相關法規。我想這是我們能看到的進步。當然，在一個大國，你每時每處都能見到很多問題在發生。我想現在最受關注的問題之一就是土地徵用。人們擔心土地因爲城市發展被徵用時能否得到合理賠償。怎樣算是合理的賠償？有時候政府和居民有不同的看法。所以我們看到有很多衝突會發生。
Yang Lan: Well, taking the example of people in custody, or people in prison. There were cases reported through the internet. That they were mistreated. And then related personnels were published, investigations were initiated, and regulations have been reshaped. I think those are progresses that we can see. But of course, in such a vast country, you see a lot of issues, problems pumping out every day, in a lot of places. I think right now the major concern is the land usage. People worry about proper compensation for their land, which was taken away for urbanization or development. So what is proper compensation? Sometimes the government and residents may have different perspectives. That's what we see where a lot incidents come up.

主持人：你認識的很多中國人，你的朋友和同事，他們怎麼看待今天的美國？
Host: How do you see a lot of Chinese that you know, your friends and colleagues view the United States today?

楊瀾：哇，這是個大問題。我想人們覺得美國是一個自由開放的社會。在教育、文化和世界政治等方面有領導地位。但我想很多中國人不同意美國政府在國際上推行的一些政策，尤其是在伊拉克戰爭等事宜上。
Yang Lan: Wow, that's a big question. I think people look up to the US as it is a free and open society. It's leading in education, in culture, in world politics and so on so forth. But I think many Chinese disagree on some of the international policies that the US government holds. Especially on Iraq wars and so on so forth.

主持人：也有一些問題是有共識的，例如北朝鮮，中美在一些問題上有合作。
Host: But some agree on North Korea. US and China cooperate on some of …

楊瀾：是的，中美在很多方面有合作。
Yang Lan: Yes, there is cooperation between US and China on a lot of fronts.

主持人：你怎樣看中國，我知道你製作電視節目、開辦企業和非政府報刊，但你怎樣看中國在今後 25 年在世界上扮演的角色？
Host: How do you think China, I realize you do television programs and entrepreneur activities, and newspapers are not part of the government, how do you think China sees its role in the world over the next 25 years?

楊瀾：我想中國在自由貿易方面、環保方面擔當更多責任的同時不僅是爲全世界着想，也是爲我們自己着想。我們不能在健康受威脅的土地上生存。從國內，我們能比外人看到更多問題，我們看到很多的民工只要外匯匯率動搖一點就會工作不保，因爲製造業的利潤非常低。
Yang Lan: Well, I think while China will take on more responsibilities in terms of free trade, in terms of the environmental protection, it's not for the sake of the outside world. It's for our own people. We can't live on a polluted piece of land with our health threatened. Also I think from an internal perspective, we see more problems than outsiders can see. We see hundreds of millions of workers, who are migrant works, whose jobs are at stake, if the foreign currencies change a little bit. Because the margin for the manufacturing industry is very low.

主持人：你是不是想說中國抗拒貨幣升值的部分原因是不想影響工人的工資？
Host: You are suggesting that China's resistance to appreciate the currency was in part because it would affect the wages of the workers in China?

楊瀾：不僅是工資，是他們的生計。上千萬工人的工作會因此受到影響。我並不是站在政府角度來爭論這些問題，我只是作爲局內人想說我們比外面的人會看到更多的挑戰。
Yang Lan: Not just the wages, it's the security of jobs. It could affect millions or tens of millions of jobs. I am not arguing from the government point of view. I am just arguing as an insider, we see more internal challenges than outsiders can see.

主持人：美國人也同樣在爭論。事實上人們會要求政府增加關稅來保護美國工人。
Host: Americans make arguments the same way. In fact, you need to impose tariffs, because you need to protect the American workers.

楊瀾：所以雙方就需要平衡……對於所有國家的領導人，保護就業是重要問題。
Yang Lan: So I think it's a balance of both… How you protect jobs is an important problem for officials all over the world.
主持人：你對中國發展的最大希望是什麼？你對你見證你成長的這片土地有着怎樣的理想？你已經在文化和媒介方面扮演瞭如此重要的角色，反映了中國的變遷。
Host: So how do you most hope China will grow? What's your own great ambition for the place where you had grown up and you have played such an important, in the sense of culture and media, role reflecting its changes.

楊瀾：就我而言，成爲中國和世界溝通的橋樑是我想做的事情之一。作爲北京奧運和上海世博會大使就是個例子。這部分工作就包括了把中國發生的一切告訴世界，還有把在中國以外發生的事情告訴國人。很有趣的是，我在電視的第一個節目就是向觀衆介紹外國的景觀、歷史和地理。然後是介紹人民、人性、觀點，是更有深度的內容。這是我引以爲豪的事情。另外我想做的是幫助中國建設文明社會，民間公益組織等等……
Yang Lan: Well, for me, I think bridging China and the outside world is part of what I can do. Serving as the ambassador for Beijing Olympics and Shanghai Expo could be part of that. So that part includes explaining to the world what's going on inside China and what's going on outside China. It's interesting that my first show on television is about introducing the scenery, history, geography for my audience. Later on it's about people, personalities, insights, perspectives to my audience, which is more in-depth, I hope. That's something I take great pride in. Another thing I want to do is to help to enhance the growth of civil society in China. The NPO, NGOs…

主持人：你是說創建機構?
Host: By that you mean creating institutions…

楊瀾：是的，非盈利組織，非政府組織等。我的基金一直在和教育機構合作，比如哈佛大學，哥倫比亞大學，北京大學，清華大學，爲培養非營利組織的高官提供課程。我認爲這類的培訓會對未來構建文明社會有很大幫助。
Yang Lan: Well, the NPOs, NGOs… My foundation has been working with the leading educational institutions like Harvard University, Columbia University, Peking University, Tsinghua University, to offer workshops for the training of the top executives of NPOs in China. So I think that capacity building for the civil society will mean a lot in the future for our society.

主持人：最後，請問是什麼讓你再次回到紐約？
Host: Finally, what brings you to New York?

楊瀾：這次我是受邀參加在華盛頓舉行的由財富雜誌組織的全球最具權威女性大會,，而且每次回紐約都讓人感覺甜蜜。我在哥大住了3年，所以來拜訪一些老朋友會很有意義。在陽光明媚的一天來到紐約市感受一下中央公園，漫步在麥迪遜大道上，走到57街。體會這座城市的脈搏讓我很有感覺。這是個我熱愛的城市，我進修的地方，我結婚的地方，也是我第一個孩子出生的地方。所以我對這座城市有着深切的感情。
Yang Lan: Well, this time I was invited to attend a Fortune Magazine's most powerful women conference in Washington. And it's always sweet to come back to New York. I lived here for 3 years at Columbia. So visiting some of my old friends would mean a lot. And coming back to the city on a sunny day, have a feel for the central park and walk on Madison Avenue, 57th… Getting a feel of the city also means a lot of things to me. It's the city that I love, where I had my postgraduate study, I married, and my first child was born here in the city. So I have a personal and emotional attachment to the city itself.

主持人：很高興看到你。
Host: We are glad to see you.

楊瀾：謝謝，查理。
Yang Lan: Thank you, Charlie.